msb discrete dac vs chord dave msb discrete dac vs chord dave

Well this is going to set the cat amongst the pigeons for sure. Besides that the MSB looks so much better. The Discrete is a genuine high fidelity DAC and a fabulously built one to boot, add in the modular input flexibility and you have a pretty stunning product with excellent future proofing. Like others said, I'd try first an MScaler with DAVE. Put simply, your DAC is ready for the future. Gbel High End [Divin Noblesse], [Divin Marquis], ([Epoque Aeon Fine]). I've also learned that a DAC's performance will depend heavily on the music player. The next module is the display which is a cool and easy-to-read LED that is slaved to the audio clock. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. This is a very odd one to describe but came to the fore on tracks like Pan Eros from World Of Drums and Percussion. As a matter of fact, I'd appreciate getting your impressions. and our ears are completely different. As you mentioned imaging better, incredible PRaT with MSB. Still, it's the way I prefer at this stage. The bottom line for me is that great DACs can make a difference over good DACs. The output modules are where the converted digital signals are output to analogue signals that our amplifiers can make use of and MSB make two flavours of the output module. This all-American theme is continued in the companys PCB Shop where they use circuit boards produced for them in Silicon Valley, which are then made ready for the automated adding of the smaller components and hand-fitting bulkier components before washing and inspection. Ill go through the modules included in the Discrete DAC and explain a little about each. Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator. This would help to take your digital playback upa few levels. How does it compare? After that you are GOLDEN. Check out our support page and technical specifications > Click Here, 10100007 - Discrete DAC with Supply- Gallery - 1200px, 10100007 - Discrete DAC with Supplies - Gallery - 1200px, 10100006 - Discrete DAC - Gallery - 1200px, 10100003 - Discrete DAC Badge - Gallery - 1200px, 10100005 - Discrete DAC MSB Logo - Gallery - 1200px, 10100004 - Discrete DAC Jack Panel - Gallery - 1200px, 10100008 - Discrete DAC Basemetal - Gallery - 1200px, 10100009 - Discrete Supply Options - Gallery - 1200px, 10100010 - Discrete Supply Cover - Gallery - 1200px. But of course, I love window shopping and perusing top tier systems including illustrious more familiar gear like Lampi, TD, MSB, Ares Cerat, Aqua. The evolution of the original irreverent and irrelevant and non-authoritative site for headphone measurements, i.e. So take it for what it is. Rori An FPGA does not have analog output, in the Chord DACs, VLC | M-Audio FastTrack Pro | Mac Opt | Panasonic SA-HE100 | Logitech Z623, : SET Tube Amp | Low-Noise Linear Regulated Power Supply | USB, Power, Speaker Cables | Speaker Stands | Acoustic Panels, http://igg.me/at/geekpulseaudio/x/5216671. This is purely speculation based on browsing the internet over the years and internalising pro/con reviews from users. One of the things I jotted down in my notes during this time was the sense of scale the Discrete brought to the music I was listening to big music sounded BIG and more intimate recordings had their own scale too. Since opening our doors in 1986, weve been driven by one goal: to craft an unrivaled listening experience for music lovers across the globe. Needless to say given everything talked about so far, the Prime DAC modules are made in-house and they have been making and designing discrete ladder DACs since 1999. Some very good advice here. I wanted to know for anyone who has heard it have you also heard a DAC that approached it in sonic performance? Chord Dave vs Mola Mola Makua/Tambaqui vs Emm Labs Dac2x vs Rockna That's just too money for the performance. I can see the problem with this unit. What is available on models higher up the MSB food chain is the ability to add an analogue module so that you can use the unit as a true preamplifier and DAC. Id imagine that upscaling refers to increasing bit-depth (like from 16 to 24 bits) which adds "vertical" resolution to the waveform in theory, improving amplitude resolution making subtle low-level detail more natural and audible (among other things) if done correctly. 2001-2023 Head-Fi.org. Msb discrete dac vs dcs bartok - wfi.pizzeria-kandel.de It is a pretty DAC but usability is left behind. Ok, I looked a prat but it proves that the separate PSUs are actually doing something rather than being there for show, though they do look rather cool in themselves. Set up is key, cables are super important, server is also personal preference. Never use!! dacs and server competed against much more expensive dacs and servers sound wise They are excellent pairing. Ill not get into the whole detail of this here but the MSB website does have an excellent (and interesting) explanation of jitter and why having a very low jitter clock is favourable to having a very accurate clock theres a link at the bottom of this review. HiFiMan Ananda, SR Orange fuses, Taiko Audio Daiza platforms, Startech FMC optical network link, Oyaide EE f/s2.0 V2 mains spurs, Akiko Audio tuning sticks, GIK Acoustic TriTraps/panels. The video cannot be shown. DAVE is the most advanced DAC Chord Electronics has ever made. Impedance 100 Low Gain setting. Its not bombarding you with information, but it is a notably more defined sound with regards to the spatial information and the way that elements sit in the mix a tad more solidity and more of a sense of the stereo image being wider and deeper and with instruments and sounds occupying a definite space of their own. The MSB simply sounded more real to my ears and offered a more convincing soundstage and tonality and all the tiny informations in the music where integrated in the musical flow whereas the DAVE simply sounded flat and not realistic to my ears and even lacked those tiny informations. The Discrete DAC, The Premier DAC, The Reference DAC, The Select DAC II, Theater Master. I wanted to know for anyone who has heard it have you also heard a DAC that approached it in sonic performance? Like a true audiophile with "issues", I'm saying to myself, if at $8300 At this kind of price, it puts Chord DAVE as being direct competition and I said that DAVE was the best DAC Id heard back in 2018. However, to get this level of separation and detail within the soundscape the DAC is clearly having a very important role to play. Conversely, you could spend a lot more and not gain a great deal in real terms. This gives us lots of headroom for future sample rates and audio formats.. I haven't heard MSB or theDenafrips DAC. I'll take a look, however I've heard they're on the warm side? To be 100% honest we have A/B tested most of the dacs mentioned It would be absolute suicide for an audio distributor to This very pleasant sound I was experiencing, it could be argued, was to a large degree down to the choice of amplifier and what that added to the mix, and I do think this is a valid argument. However, there are two inputs for external PSUs and a little doodad/adapter that allows the use of one external PSU. It could sound analytical or hot coupled with bright combination of speaker and amplifier. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material (in part or in full) without express and written permission from this websites author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites. I believe it comes down to This DAC is 11,000 and as such, it is a considerable investment to make, but I would suggest that this is not stupid money for the kind of transparency and clarity it brings. Does anyone have formula for that? luxury apartment hotels paris. There are some tonal differences too, but what you prefer will depend on your other equipment and the music you like. Best DACs comparison test result [[My Subjective Opinion]] The Discrete DAC uses two of these modules per unit. Of the ones you mentioned I'd be most tempted by the Emm Labs DAC 2x though if you can get a used higher-end Esoteric, you should jump on it. But dont take our word for it. a year ago I got the new Renderer V2 which was a step up over USB. Aurender N10 is still not a USB only dedicated streamer so you will not hear what USB audio is fully capable off through Ms/Dave. This is a review, detailed measurements and listening tests of CHORD DAVE combination DAC and headphone amplifier. For the most part, I listened to the MSB through our LAB12 and Krell KST100 amps and TotalDAC D100 speakers. Elegant design. Compared to some other similarly priced DACs ($10 - $15k MSRP) I prefer the Discrete with 2 Discrete PS. I did have the BADA Ref in my system for a short audition, and the Trinity And CH Precision C1 for a longer stay during a previous iteration of my system. I was upgrading it in this order and still could not believe every time it sounded better. MSB thrives off the innovation required to meet consumer demands. Click here to download your copy, At 11000 plus taxes as tested the Lampizator Big 7 is certainly no budget DAC, but does it deliver on sonic ability? I'm really anxious to hear more opinions about this DAC and noticed that DAVE hasn't got a thread of its own (only together with Mojo). Regardless if the buyer has never auditioned the unit, and found it corresponding to, Simaudio Moon Neo 260 DT CD Transport / Empirical Audio reclocking system: Synchro-Mesh Reclocker driven by Dynamo Linear Power Supply, 2 x Reference BNC digital cable / Schiit Yggdrasil Less is More (LIM) DAC / Octave HP 700 preamp / Octave RE 320 stereo amp with Super Black Box / Reference 3A Reflector monitors, on Sound Anchors Signature stands / dual JL Audio Fathom 112 v2 subwoofers / Cables: ZenWave Audio D4 interconnects, ZenWave SMSG speaker cables / Diverse Herbie's Audio Lab footers / Acoustic treatment: Tri-panels, window plugs, ceiling diffusers (all ASC), diverse carpets chosen for acoustic properties (wool, polypropylene basketweave), Sure absolutely agree that paying that much money without auditioning (preferably in my house, with my own equipment, in my room) does not make much sense. Can it output a Low or High Voltage on a single pin in a bitstream? Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers, A healthy approach to understanding measurements, After being asked for the 308th time, Merv lists top 5 headphones, $1000 to the first to design a headamp using discrete components with better measurements than Magni 3+, http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/chord-dave-29757/#post579518, (You must log in or sign up to reply here.). Very resolving, tone is on the cold side of neutral but otherwise pretty free of digital nasties compared to the cheaper Chords, and the stage is flatter than Keira Knightley. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. Thank you all for your answers. Guess what I am trying to say is: preamps are important. What effect does reconstruction filter have? CHORD ELECTRONICS DAVE | Page 887 - Head-Fi Yeah, you and me both- the look I got wasn't as funny as the one I got from the Sennheiser stand when I asked if they had any HD600 or HD650, instead of all those Momentums and so forth, but still. The MSB Renderer was developed using an in-house hardware design running an ultra low noise A5 processor for optimal audio playback performance. And this level of detail the MSB Discrete brings to the listening experience was carried through everything I listened toand I listened to this DAC a lot, with it being the only thing I used to for a solid two weeks. Search: Msb Discrete Dac Vs Chord Dave. I have had Dave in my system. Astrostar here, said it completely blew away any dac he had before, and mind you, he has the entry level AC model. MSBs top-level DAC is 121K and there are other brands out there offering very expensive options, but the truth is that the vast majority of people will never feel the need to spend that kind of money (even if they could) to eek out that last-minute bit of detail. Will do. Equipment used: - Roon - 3-in 1-out XLR switchbox - Goldpoint SA2X Attenuator - Benchmark AHB2 Amplifier - Hifiman Susvara headphones (Also used Arya and HD800S but for the most part susvara) Video review of DAVE + Mscaler here: Chord Dave vs Mola Mola Makua/Tambaqui vs Emm Labs Dac2x vs Rockna Wavedream IGNORED Chord Dave vs Mola Mola Makua/Tambaqui vs Emm Labs Dac2x vs Rockna Wavedream . Both DACs connected directly to power amp using each DACs volume controle. Actually the ChordHugo M Scaler and the Blu Mk. So thats it and I think the only thing I think Ive left out of the build part of this DAC is the 3 buttons and the knob on the front panel which are used for manually changing the volume and menu diving, though all this can be done from the remote. Let us do the work of refurbishing and finding your current electronics a new hometheyll continue to be enjoyed for years to come. Daedalus Audio Apollo 11's. REL S3/SHO. I have the Berkeley Alpha Reference DAC, waiting for an upgrade. Perhaps you should consider the Accuphase DC-37 currently for sale in the classifieds? and build quality is also excellent. More sharing . The MSB simply offered more of everything and to my ears proved again that a true multi bit converter/ladder DAC is superior to delta/sigma or FPGA DACs. It features the very best conversion technology available, using proprietary techniques never seen before, making DAVE the most advanced DAC/preamp amplifier in the world. https://www.linkedin.com/in/john-rothschild-70aab85/, Headphones and Personal Audio with Pitch Perfect Service. Euphony Summus, EtherRegen, MSB Discrete. I actually like the simplicity of this and it is very intuitive to use when you get into setting up and menu diving, though diving is over-egging it a bit as the Discrete is a doddle to set upif you do it right, but more on that in a while. I've had some excellent preamps in my system (Dartzeel, Absolare, Robert Koda, Kondo). Jon Hopkins Music For Psychedelic Therapy was a beautifully enveloping experience, made all the more so as sounds come and go in the soundstage in a somewhat more solid way than without the usual DAC. "OK, it would be. I'm looking for suggestions on DACs I should listen to as possible replacement of my Chord Dave. However, its also very nice to listen to in this system, though I would say it is more accurate/true to the original DAC than our LAB12 DAC or perhaps our Lampizator BIG 7. RCA outputs with the optional output module Voltage: 3.57 Vrms Maximum Impedance > 600 High Gain setting. As I said, its an odd one to describe but you do hear it as it brings a sense of rightness to rhythm tracks. There is no dark magic involved. MSB Technology [Select DAC II Full Option] Chord [Dave] Myek [Manhattan II] I had A-B test about 2 months. Sound Media Group Pty Ltd. All Rights Reserved. let me know when it's on, I'll make my way down if I can. Mind you, I have chipless DSD with 1 bit processing, so the bar is set VERY high for me. Best DACs comparison test result [[My Subjective Opinion]] I hate to repeat myself, but there are no absolutes in audio, only preferences. Paired with performance increases, our modular design ethos increases flexibility for future updates and product support, guaranteeing a long-term product investment. And if I had to guess (given I haven't heard both), I'd guess it outperforms the Tambaqui. johndoe21ro The main reason we took on Rockna was because their Best DACs comparison test result [[My Subjective Opinion]] There seemed to be a little more separation of instruments in the mix of whatever I was listening to than with the LAB12 DAC and Pre in the signal path and a slightly leaner edge to the music more clearly etched, perhaps? home system and listening for that end result. Sources: Hiby R6, Fiio x3II, Fiio x5II DACs: Dave, Yggdrasil, Hugo, Hugo TT, U12. https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/how-to-support-audio-science-review.8150/, Check the true bit-depth of your files and audio engine, Guide to Subwoofer Calibration and Bass Preferences, Know your limits (Sound Exposure Safety Chart), Topping DX7 Pro+ vs Chord DAVE measurements (Cosmos ADC) - DAVE is better in some areas (surprise! In comparison to spdif which feels more 3D but relatively smaller sound stage, with better separation, vocals are more focused/accurate, everything sounds more evenly balanced. The only thing that I'd really like to see added here is an Aries Cerat. I suppose what Im saying (badly) is that the Discrete was true to the file it was being fed and I did enjoy hearing it allowed me to pull small details out of the mix Jazz at the Pawn Shop (DSD128) felt more lifelike and in the room than I am used to and raw tracks such as Phutures Acid Trax did sound rougher and really basically recorded. I have heard the Dave and EMM Labs DAC2x up against aMakua that I subsequently purchased. So, essentially, around the back of this DAC we have XLR output modules, dual power inputs (more on this in a moment) the digital input module (XLR, RCA, and two optical), and the USB input. sounds just like the Dave. Yes, definitely, as it is those extra tiny little bits of detail that adds the cherry on top of an already rather splendid slice of musical cake brought out on tracks like the audio show mainstay Keith Dont Go from Acoustic Live by Nils Lofgren. Moving away from the actual sound of the music, one of my main takeaways from listening to the Discrete was the sense of timing it brought to music. Who knows ?! digital 149728-117859 MSB select II vs all dacs ? However, there are also products that manage to straddle both sides of the electric fence (whilst being careful not to electrocute their nether regions) and give us a tremendously enjoyable reproduction of a recording whilst remaining true to the source material. UPnP Protocol They're very back ordered and are a pro unit with balanced only outputs and no remote but oh my do they sound spectacular. An FPGA does not have analog output, in the Chord DACs, the FPGA handles digital processing only, not conversion from digital to analog. We have what I consider to be a pretty resolving system, but we also listen to music a fair old bit for pure pleasure and so theres a valve amp currently feeding our chosen reference loudspeakers though thats not to say this system isnt highly resolving in its own right. The world's largest high-end audio community. This leaner and cleaner edge has the effect of adding a level of perceived detail to the listening experience. The more observant of you will have read this and noticed that there is no mains inlet. Up to 32 bit 768kHz Founded in 2010 Whats Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. Its weighty, it feels perfect, its not overly ostentatious and its perfect! I wired it all up and the unit lit up but I could get no sound out of it whatsoever. Australian Business Number 38 650 151 296, Digital Sources, DACs, and Computer Audio, Chord Dave vs Mola Mola Makua/Tambaqui vs Emm Labs Dac2x vs Rockna Wavedream. You must log in or register to reply here. I think people buy what they like. The Merriam-Webster online dictionary tells me that the definition of high-fidelity (HiFi) is the reproduction of an effect (such as sound or an image) that is very faithful to the original and it would seem to be reasonable to assume that this is the goal of audiophiles around the world. See what the reviews are saying. Blimey my RME ADI 2 DAC looks to have better performance at a fraction of the cost, /===============================================================/, DACs, Streamers, Servers, Players, Audio Interface, Combination Audio DAC and Headphone Amplifiers. Couldn't agree more. What did you think with the Chord Dave vs Emm Labs Dac2x? I have personally not observed this - with either the DAVE or my Mojo. But even with great preamps, a great DAC in a low noise environment, will produce a more transparent sound going direct to the amps than through the preamp. I would,however, like to say we are highly selective over the brands we represent and believe they are excellent value. My first serious audio system was Garrard turntable, Fisher Int(SS), ADS bookspeaker bought on 1978. Different songs will sound better with different sources - Different horses for different courses. If so I'd recommend the Aqua Formula xHD and the TotalDAC d1-Seven. It is my name after all! - MQA decoding. Whatever, the Discrete is a superb bit of kit that Id really love to take up residence in the system on a permanent basis, but thats not going to happen. the Select II pushes the analog to be its best. The demo model came in brushed aluminium but you can also get black. CHORD ELECTRONICS DAVE | Page 934 - Head-Fi.org That is not to say that a preamp doesn't produce value with respect to other sound quality characteristics that may affect the personal appeal of the musical reproduction (e.g., soundstage), or that the extra transparency won't reveal system issues, but there is no question that transparency is higher when going straight to the amps. But the differences between great DACs is small. So true jr, the discrete R2R Multibit dacs like the Terminator the Holo, MSB, Total ect ect have a life and a boogie factor to the music that DS dacs lack, and yes they do show up bad recordings. To each their own, but I think Chord sounds cold and artificial. Im participating to both learn and make suggestions where I have experience that may help. A Chord DAC converts to analog via Chord's "Pulse Array DAC" which is a discrete circuit, similar to the discrete circuit used in the MSB DACs (but not the same). Theres just a sense that with the MSB in the line that everything is timed correctly and rock solid. MSB Discrete DAC | Hifi Pig Much appreciated. Chord Msb Dac Dave Vs Discrete [FZ8OTP] - amministrato.to.it Personally, I think that both these standpoints have their merits and its going to be a case of you paying your money and you taking your choice. Were honored to be recognized by the industry for bringing you the most lifelike sound we can. @astewart8944--two years ago in Feb of 17 i did audition the original Formula dac in my system directly compared to the Lampizator GG 1.5 and the Nagra HD and preferred the Formula for its greater space, lower noise, and more neutral and fast presentation. Sign up for a new account in our community. Fair enough if you know some of the posters here and their listening preferences. Sonically, it is akin to the old straight wire with gain only in the digital realm. Hmm.. The DACs are individually shielded and thermally-bonded and multiple units are used per channel, which MSB tells us increases performance and lowers output impedance. That statement makes sense in an analog paradigm. I could easily live with any of these. The dCS Bartok was also interesting but, based on my research, I kept coming back to Bricasti. Not sure why you would spend so much on a DAC when the Crane Song Solaris is available at $1,949. Even at very low listening levels, it was clear that the MSB was delivering a clean analogue output to the ampand Im aware that sounds a bit vague. Sound Media Group Pty Ltd list the Rockna Wavedream Edition sounds this good, how good does their ISOAcoustics Oreas footers. Analogue Volume Control 1dB from 0 to 106 Deactivable by menu, Dimensions ChassisWidth : 432 mmDepth: 305 mmHeight without feet: 51 mm. But if you don't, what is your reference point? If you go reference you will never look back. We await Phase 2 where all DACs are assessed using upsampled data via your Lumin U1 to establish ranking and the preferred format through each. And in the case of a great DAC with great amps in a system with very low noise, going direct to the amps can be magical. Anyway, the little bit of extra detail on the strings, the attack, and decay are all there to be heard and its a marvelous thing to listen to. Along with an integrated clock, changing this card allows switching between single-ended and balanced outputs. Founded in 2010 Whats Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. MSB DACs also use a processing chip to handle oversampling and digital filtering (not sure if this chip is an FPGA or other type processing chip, but it is a high speed digital processing chip). Thanks for the suggestions Wisnon. there are others I know about but Ive not heard them recently. what Im saying is that comparing dacs also must take into account of all the interface advantages of each particular dac. The in-house discrete design is then constructed into its own shielded CNC pocket for optimal isolation. Given your appreciation of the Pacific Microsonics DAC, I hope you'll get a chance to hear the Berkeley in your system as well. I like Aqua Formula xHD and Totaldac Six. With the MSB there has been a great deal of attention paid to ensuring the signal stays as pure as possible and is not affected by other parts of the DAC or outside sources; modular construction, dual power supplies, isolation of USB etc. Looking forward to the your additions to the list. The Prime DAC Module. comparing top dacs directly is a bit challenging, even if you have them both together. dCS Bartok>Chord DAVE>MSB discrete discreteR2R R2R DAVE BartokdCSBartok which make some people prefer this one to MSB Select II Point 85 Chord Dave and Mscaler (or Blue II transport) This one give transparent and 3D soundstage with excellent details. You must log in or register to reply here. retail client forgets that most audio stores and audio distribution companies Also, it is worth noting I heard the v1 DAC 2X, not the v2. But then we have to apply the law of diminishing returns. I've yet to see a system with direct connections eliminating the preamp which wasn't improved by a adding a good preamp back into the mix! Focusing on our network renderer and USB input, your audio tech will be on the cutting edge. With two prime DACs, the MSB Discrete yields an unprecedented level of detail that reproduces the musicality, soundstage and texture of an original performance, bringing the artist to you. The Discrete DAC Features - MSB Technology The Discrete DAC Refined sound. What I do know is that the MSB brings an excellent level of performance by way of neutrality to a system that allows other parts of the system to do their thing its sort of the digital equivalent of a very (very) good cartridge. Focal Utopia ~ LCD i4 ~ ETHER FLOW open/C ~ LCD-2.2/XC ~ Nighthawk ~ K10 custom ~ JH Angie, Chord mscaler // Chord TT2 // Oppo PM-1 (Artisan silver headphone cable) // Beyerdynamic DT880 600 Ohm // WAVE Stream bnc cables // Kef LS50 Meta. Search: Msb Discrete Dac Vs Chord Dave. CHORD Dave could be the most expensive deeply design DAC in the world and if you find it not your taste there is the best off the shelf DACs like akm4499 in Topping D90 for 699$ that could be even better than Dave. I have great synergy in my system and see no reason to listen to every new DAC out there. dac at a reasonable price. And now that my system is much more resolving, it's possible that the differences could be larger and my preferences could change. Once populated, the circuit boards are made into modules and then placed inside the casework. I've owned a PS Audio