I had a gunsmith replace some springs and open the choke. On barrel action of breech loading shotgun after the gun has passed proof with semi-smokeless powder . Is there a 70mm stamp on the extractor blade faces?
Belgium vs. Japan: Who Made the Better Browning Auto-5? I have not been able to locate an authoritative resource vast quantity of data to treat, the global work was parted in a series of publications,
Between 1847-1952 the stamp with the letter F-J C was used in the same purpose. Subcategories This category has only the following subcategory. The earliest 3D-printed guns were crude single-shot devices. Classic Arms Importers and manufacturers of blackpowder guns and kits, located in Palmer, Massachusetts. If 'JF' it could be Janssen Fils or Frres. The Belgian gun industry in Liege produced flintlock muskets for their African colonies until the mid-1950s. See Kennett's # 2 and # 9 above. Length of chamber over diameter of chamber. I can't find any other mumbers on the gun other than the multiple proof markings that I will post later. Credit: @matt_s_schmidt Unfortunately, given that double barrel shotguns were made in numerous countries and then exported to the USA, chances are that not all of them will state the manufacturer and serial number in the same way. Courard
Thank y'all again! below are samples of Proof Marks of different countries. My best guess is that it's a maker's mark, but of course I could be wrong.
Belgian Liege gunmakers (D to F) - Volume 2 - HLEBOOKS.com Colard Louis - Counet Lonard
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Prices: side-by-side, from 53,000 + VAT; over-and-under, from 65,000 + VAT. The Belgian-made Auto-5 gets more accolades, but the Miroku A-5 is the better gun. Hi, your shotgun was made after 1924 due to the Perron-Liege proof marks. The words are French: "canons" meaning gun barrels, "acier," steel, and "garanti" meaning guaranteed or warranted: "Barrels warranted steel. He designed iconic guns like the M1911 handgun, the Browning Hi-Power pistol, and the Browning Auto-5 shotgun. Comblain Hubert Joseph
and an eagles head. Ateliers Saint Laurent, Bauwir Joseph
No maker's name anywhere? The first type of testing we will study is the Proof Test. Lee Kennett did afine survey, "A History of Proof Marks: Gun Proof in Belgium," that waspublished in. Belgian Liege gunmakers (D to F) - Volume 2. Sorry for my delay in responding: I've been OOT and off-line for two weeks. After 1924 fractions of grams were no longer used 1892 - present 1K355.5 17 Broqua & Scholberg
Most shotguns have smoothbore barret to be able to use shells which are grouped by gauges (instead of rifles caliber) - they indicate the weight of the ammunition fired. These are original antique muzzleloaders that are made by individual gunsmiths or small manufacturing concerns, usually prior to the era of mass production, but sometimes well into the mid-19th century. Bury Jules.
Bayet Frres
So the only indicator of the chamber depth is found with the stamp of the Chamber dimensions? Where did you find the Falla mark? Come join the discussion about optics, hunting, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more!
Biography: Henri & Nicolas Pieper - Forgotten Weapons with this information in an attempt to clear up some wrong information Most specimen marks are of this nature, and it is no unusual thing to find the marks of two different smiths upon the same weapon, one man signing the lock work, the other being the barrel maker. Courard N. The size of this book of 232 pages
Comblain H. J. Old Belgium 12 gage double barrel shotgun. It has punched on one side of barrel 17.2, on the other side punched JC, EL ,pinfire symbol, K and crown on its top, E LG little crown under them in oval.Please help me to get the closest identification for this nice firearm.
Antique Shotguns & Belgian Shotguns Side by Side - Collectors Firearms Classic Guns: Great American Double-Barrel Shotguns - Gun - Gun Digest Well the bore is noted in the rhombus as >>12<< and the constriction values are >>18.2/18.2<< & >>17.3/18.2<< so with those it has to be a 12 bore. Listing of small arms appearing from 1800 to 1899. Seen There's no indication of choke--but that didn't begin in Belgium until 1898. I can send pictures of it. Bovy Thodore Joseph
country requiring that weapons sold within the respective country, and Do you have any information on them?
Identification on a Belgian Liege musket, real or repro? will normally provide the information needed to make a caliber typically do not have a caliber designation; symbols and codes are used The If you could find the time to give me a clue what exactly this gun is I would greatly appreciate it.Thanks,John. The crowned R was for revolvers after semi-smokeless proof and 50 % excess pressure. Since the U.S. has no proofing houses (as in England, France, Germany and .
Belgian Best Shotguns - CHUCKHAWKS.COM of data available and a wealth of color pictures about the most typical pieces of his
1860-1870.
Mauser Serial Numbers DatabaseMAUSER PISTOLC-96 (BROOMHANDLE)DATES OF Breechloaders had existed previously, but Casimir Lefaucheux's 1835 invention of the pin-fire cartridgea cylinder with a pin extending at right angles to the base which detonated a fulminate charge in the cartridgequickly led to better breechloading systems and to the development first of rimfire and then of centerfire cartridges. I've owned two Belgian side by sides and two Browning Superposed, so I guess I can say that I have some acquaintance withtwentieth centuryones, but unlike my posts on antique English shotguns I don't have an antique Belgian one at hand to describe. (most sales were in the 1930s). There's no indication of chamber length--but that didn't begin until 1892.The other marks I can't identify.So what can I tell you? outlawman7 - The reason for a lack of response here may be found in the post immediately above yours. Nowadays these firearms are mostly used for hunting or kept at home for self-defence. [more like this] Belgian Flobert Style Warnant 8mm Parlor. You can easily choose the shotgun you need on Ammoterra.com. Your help is appreciated. All 31 Belgian gun makers, Belgium dealers and sellers and suppliers Home > Companies Gun & arms makers from Belgium country Czech Republic South Africa Israel Malaysia Netherlands Belgium Norway United Arab Emirates Finland Nigeria Ukraine Hungary Indonesia Lithuania Serbia Slovak Republic Croatia New Zealand Sweden Greece Japan Slovenia I suspect the gun is a Janssen. The crown R and star P stamped on the barrel, receiver, and cylinder. Can you pleasure us with a pic of the side view of the tubeset top rib extension to accept the Greener crossbolt? It means it's a 12 gauge that has been proofed with black powder. Bertrand Antoine
Since 1924 used on all rifled arms. A great deal of painstaking research work is necessary before a list of armourers marks applied to pistols can be compiled, but I have every hope of preparing such a list at a future date when peace is restored in Europe and the great museum collections are accessible. Bertrand Antoine & Fils
Belgian shotguns are still finely-made firearms and are considered some of the best to come out of Europe. On top between the barrels "CANONS ACIER GARANTI". It was used by a myriad of hunters for all kinds of wild game. Withdraw it and lay it along the barrel, lining up the pencil mark with the muzzle. CLIMAS Tradename used by J. Stevens Arms Co. on guns.
Shotguns - Belgium Double for sale - Guns International Bernard Victor & Cie
Hunting, fishing, cooking, and other critical aspects of life. Introduced to designate arms proved in conformity of German Proof Law of 1891.
Belgium Infantry Arms List (Current and Former Types) - Military Factory http://sites.google.com/a/damascusknowl m/www/home, https://www.hunting.be/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Belgian-Proof-Marks.pdf, Belgian Liege gunmakers (A to C) - Volume 1, https://docs.google.com/document/d/17yC Xntqw/edit, https://www.dropbox.com/sc/0sf7osf1dtg1s3r/AABKOd3k4GaQV_ppAci4eWNka, https://books.google.com/books?id=5fxGA g=PA52&lpg, http://www.cip-bobp.org/homologation/en _type_id=7, https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewto 5&t=471622, https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewto 5&t=474548, https://books.google.com/books?id=5fxGAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA53, http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/ar a%20gb.htm, https://www.cornellpubs.com/old-guns/it em_id=3618, https://www.cornellpubs.com/old-guns/it em_id=3202. referred to more commonly as "Proof Marks", Thanks a ton this, helped me identify a friends old revolver. Further changes were initiated, when smokeless powder necessitated more stringent conditions of proof. Again, thank you BELGIAN MADE, 12 GAUGE, BOXLOCK EJECTOR, 32" BARRELS, CHOKES MODIFIED & FULL, 2-3/4", BROADWAY RIB, GOLD WASHED SINGLE SELECTIVE INERTIA TRIGGER, NON-AUTOMATIC SAFETY, PISTOL GRIP, .Click for more info Seller: Country Pursuits Area Code: 718 $3,895.00 ROYAL GUN, BELGIUM SXS 12GA, GI#: 102149842 The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. Bouquin Ad
If you are considering buying a Belgian gun, look long and hard atits quality. Clment Walter
so that means it is for sure a 12 gauge? Unmarked barrel with Belgian proof mark, action currently . Counet - Genot
to identify the manufacturer. visiting our on-line listing of manufacturers identifying marks, Proof marks are the official stamps or ciphers showing that a barrel has been properly tested with the prescribed excess charges of powder and ball that allow a large factor of safety to the user. You can tell an unaltered pin-fire by the vertical slot in the breech extending to the top of the barrel (and, of course, the absence of a firing pin). The inspectors mark is still an secret so the list here should be regarded as uncertain, but it can in some cases give a more accurate dating that the stamps. Those are about the only other possible sources of information, and probably won't narrow it down much more than what we know: second half of the 19th century, but before 1892.Best,GerryBest. The only other markings I have seen are along the length of thr barrel \ \/ | . Sixteen-gauge guns generally fall somewhere in between.
ELG Belgian markings | The Firearms Forum have a great day!
Belgium Leige - The DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com If you are interested in import, export, or wholesale purchase of shotguns, theres no better place than AmmoTerra to find a buyer or supplier of military equipment. So I'd guess it was made in the late 1800's. Austrian arms were marked with the double eagle, and later with the letters Wn 78; a variety of private marks of manufacturers are also in use. 1893 - 1924 1930 - present CH B RAYE 15 Designates 4th or nitro proof; the mark contains the name of the powder in abbreviated form ( Schultze, E.C.) The one on the far right is the definite proof for nitro, or smokeless powder. Birmingham did not establish its proof houses until 1813, and though another Act was passed in 1815 to strengthen the former, the laws were not stringent enough, and the Birmingham proof was not recognized as sound until much later, when the Act of 1855, still unsatisfactory, and the eventually satisfactory one of 1868, was passed. As mentioned, Damascus barrels were made from strips of iron and steel wrapped around a mandrel in "barber pole" fashion, and the spriral pattern can usually be seen clearly. Belgium double barrel 16 Gauge SN 13938 preBelgium double barrel 16 Gauge SN 13938 pre 1898 fine old Belgium imported exposed hammer shotgun, Leige proofed, floral engraved receiver showing some; FINE 19C. Joseph Farrell on October 27, 2020: Some older foreign M855 Green Tip, Didn't find what you were looking for? 2 On barrel locking system or chamber if the lumps are part of the barrel after final black powder proof, Preliminary proof for unfinished barrels, and indicated barrels had not been weakened after proof by breeching, Used on muzzle loaders, Bore diameter in millimeters. Search. Belgian proofs are among the oldest and have a very long history. barrel began as a means to insure its safety and integrity. Bultot Jean
What about a lightning bolt with a star above? The problem is this mark was used from 1818 (muzzle loading period) until 1893, so that hardly narrows down the time frame.
Gun Barrel Proof Marks - Dave Cushman On barrels and actions of smoothbore guns with the gauge size (or nominal bore) plus the shell or cartridge case length. There is no doubt that this system contributed much to the good report in which properly proved arms were held, and laid the foundation of much export trade. date, serial number and property marks as well as various acceptance and A forum community dedicated to Shotgun owners and enthusiasts including the Remington, Beretta, and Mossberg shotguns brands. Double proof as prescribed by the French law of 1810. Can be without star and ring. Inspector's marks can not be used to establish date of manufacture; they were re-used over time and the significance of some has been lost. they were made + or - 1900 to 1930's.
It was mandatory post-1924. individual armorers and inspectors used their own unique stamps in some this location now so you can return often.
and BELGIUM had a glut of old, obsolete flint lock and percussion gun parts left over from years past. It could be almost anything: an English Greener, which would have Birmingham, England, proof marks, or it could be a double of dubious origin. Hand Guns 5 Rifles-Shotguns 1 . The mark was seldom requested, Chamber dimensions in millimeters shotguns undergoing smokeless proof. One of the lesser known of the Belgian handgun makers was Jean Warnant but he was a creative designer and the British Thornton's Patent for a double action revolver lock work was actually originally his idea for which he applied for a patent in Belgium in 1874 and that patent was granted in 1875. time, therefore assisting in dating the arm.
Proof and Armorers' Marks - The Book of the Pistol HI, John. Inspectors mark, normally these are kept secret.
Gun Proof Marks, Stamps and Date Codes - firearmsguide American gun manufacturers moved away from Damascus barrels and on to tubes made from fluid steel. It has a gold trigger and serial number starts with an x. I'm very curious as to why there is an "FN" above the serial #. late 1880's to early 1890's, .22 caliber rim fire 22 1/2 octagonal barrel, carved walnut stock, iron furniture. "Cueruy" could be the maker. Paypal, Order
A.H. Fox guns came in 12-gauge, 16-gauge, and 20-gauge. interlaced, and surmounted by a crown. Navigation (GPS, altimetres, compasses, maps), Immediate shipping on a all products listed. Boden
Clment Charles Philibert
Collard Henri - Roux Jacques
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Variant of the one above, used for some month in 1894 and sometimes later on Not for ball, indicates that the barrel has choke. No maker's name at all. I also looked at other European proof marks but didn't find the one you mention: compare http://www.cornellpubs.com/Catalog/proof-marks-intl.pdf.
Gun Markings - OldGuns.net Some proved pieces exist, and are marked in the case of revolvers with the letters U.S., in the case of other arms with the letters V.P. Chaumont M.J.
Firearm Proof Marks, Arsenal & Inspector Marks
Hi, Jeremy. 1890, double bbl shotgun, 12 ga, 30" bbls.
Hits and Misses: Dating a Double-Barreled Hammer Gun - Blogger Breechloaders had existed previously, but Casimir Lefaucheuxs 1835 invention of the pin-fire cartridgea cylinder with a pin extending at right angles to the base which detonated a fulminate charge in the cartridgequickly led to better breechloading systems and to the development first of rimfire and then of centerfire cartridges.Dating pin-fire guns: the 1835 date of Lefaucheuxs invention gives us a convenient terminus a quo: if the pin-fire wasnt invented until 1835, any pin-fire gun cannot be earlier than 1835. Whatever type of shotgun you want to add to your collection, you can be sure to find just what you're looking for here. The gun belonged to HH Nawab Ahsanullah. Dallas, Donald. Any info will help. listed in alphabetical order. Baron Emile
JavaScript is disabled. But despite the history the belgian proof stamps are rather straight forward, normally one can't get more information from the proof more than it has been done if one can't find the inspectors mark. The book presented below is the second of the series and is covering the gun makers whose names are in the D to F range of the alphabetical order.
Hi, thanks for the info and knowledge you provided. This printed and hardbound book, written in English and French by Alain Daubresse, provide an extensive insight about the gunmaking activity in Belgium from its very beginning to the middle of the 20th century. ('Manufacturer') Home > Product Catalog Shotguns made in Belgium category Firearms/ Small arms 731 Rifles 237 Shotguns 359 Pistols 134 Blank/Signal/Rubberball pistols 1 Black powder/Muzzleloader 2 Ammunition 3 Ammunition Components/Reloading 20 When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. By 1931, Fabrique Nationale d'Armes de Guerre in Herstal, Belgium (FN) launched an even smaller .25 ACP pistol developed by the company's chief designer, Dieudonn Saive. This listing allows you to trace back a particular nation's aviation history in reverse-chronological order. No small part of the Belgians' remarkableability to meet the demands of a wide variety of firms trading all over the world was their willingness to go on producing type of guns that were obsolete. This mark is found on guns that is not made in Belgium by countries that use proofs that is not recognized by the Belgian Proof House. These might cursive as well.
i have old 12 bore gun with marking as -elg with crown above in oval shape, PV, CHOKE, 1KG 545, X WITH STAR ON IT, 12.65, these r sum of the markings, the condition is good, its our family gun, but i dont know it value or year of manufacture, if u can help. Purchased by Val Forgett of Navy Arms in 1978. As the old saying has it, "The buyer needs a thousand eyes; the seller, only one." These The fourth the crossed branches, with the letters S.E.E., and a cross in their angles.
Old Belgian musket help | The Muzzleloading Forum Black powder proof for rifles and shotguns. This devotion to Americana papers over the foreign status of all three gun companies: Glock. I live in Tennessee and would love help on identifying this gun down to the year and place made. Other than the diameter stamp, I don't see a 70mm stamp. Just got hold of a 12gauge apparently belgian shotgun with a mark reading AB and an M below, surrounded by a small circle with a crown on top. Since it reads >>Made in Belgium<< on the side of the tubes it was made for export. production. As I've said, I'm not an expert. Comblain
We now have 1689 serial numbers!. It's as useful in a duck blind as it is . Nessonvaux is short drive outside of Liege. Collette Lopold
Hard to identify or value firearms - NRA Museums: Bettonville - Fontaine
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Forum, http://www.littlegun.be/arme belge/artisans identifies d/a delcour dupont gb.htm, http://damascus-barrels.com/Belgian_All_Proofmarks.html, http://damascus-barrels.com/Belgian_Trade_Marks.html.
PDF BELGIAN PROOF MARKS - - Hunting.be Belgian Liege gunmakers (D to F) - Volume 2 The text is written in French AND English. Guns and rifles built in Germany and the German principalities before the 1890s typically did not carry proof marks, but the 1891 proof law "grandfathered" these arms by mandating that they be submitted to the proof house and marked with a crown-over-V, the V standing for vorrat or "on hand". location, rather than a manufacturer. Besides these national collections, there are many municipal and private galleries whose curators have formed most excellent catalogues, but in the main this knowledge is uncoordinated. The system of proof in Great Britain was as follows: In England, the second charter of the Gunmakers Company granted in 1672 marked the beginning of the official proving of arms, but it did not apply to weapons made elsewhere in the Kingdom, provided they were not offered for sale in the London market. Quick Facts
Belgium - Shotguns Please someone let me know that they know about these Belgian doubles! The proof marks shown below will assist in determining nationality of manufacturers when no other markings are evident. I will have to upload some pictures later when I get to my computer. The famous "hump back" was made in countless configurations and gauges. I have my grand dads Belgian Browning A5 Sweet Sixteen. Outdoor Hub, LLC (d/b/a Carbon Media Group), 30800 Telegraph Rd, Suite 1921, Bingham Farms, MI 48025 USA. Do check with a gunsmith before you shoot it! Consignment Sale Information.
Antique Shotguns - Percussion for sale - Guns International Baltus - Wilmotte
Hand Guns 2 Rifles-Shotguns 0 . It's very old but I'd like to know more about it. Ever seen that? How does it open? Gun Barrel Proof Marks. Category:Firearm manufacturers of Belgium - Wikipedia Category:Firearm manufacturers of Belgium Help Belgium portal Aggregate of articles pertaining to firearms manufacturers in Belgium . Bernimolin & Cap
Bronne Gustave
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Firearm Proof Marks, Arsenal & Inspector Marks + 10-14% by piezoelectric transducer measurement. Underneath the whole appears the word St. Etienne. Come join the discussion about optics, hunting, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! Around the 1880s, Damascus barrels became an object of the past. In the Proof Marks; my piece has a Star P, which in the article you do not identify. We present shotguns with a wide variety of features, technical characteristics, and prices from the worlds best companies, such as Chiappo, Italy; Tar Ideal Concept LTD, Israel and the leader of Chinese gun-industry - China North Industries Corp. (NORINCO). The first on the left and the fourth (the one that resembles a candlestick)indicate provisional proof.